Hi. I am Deva Nandita and I am talking to Maneesha James about the OSHO Bardo CD which was released recently. Hi Maneesha. Hi Nandita. I hear the OSHO Bardo CD sales are doing very well? Yes, they are, and the feedback is really very very gratifying. We are very happy with it. I know you have practiced this meditation a few times, so how is it for you? I find it very helpful as a daily meditation and the combination of the voices and the music works perfectly for me. And I find it very helpful as it is a fine balance between keeping myself awake and alert and relaxed at the same time. How could I put it? Mmm…. For me it is as if awareness is speaking to awareness about awareness. Hmm. That’s a lovely way of putting it. And I would find it very helpful when I am dying. How do you see OSHO Bardo? As a meditative process that supports one in going inside and consciously relaxing. So, a process that’s both helpful as a daily meditation, as you suggested, and also in the dying process. You co-created this with Sudheer, who runs OSHO Sammasati workshops with you? That’s right. In fact it was a whole team effort. There’s the designer who produced the…put so much work into the media book. Yes, I see the design is very elegant and, I guess, it has a nature theme all through. Yes, I could just show you a little bit. And, it also mentions the benefits of OSHO Bardo and who is it for. Yes. And and how to introduce it to someone else. So a lot of information there. And then, you have the CD itself. Yes. I think a lot of work has been put into it. A lot of work has been put into it. And the music too – specially composed and played by our musician friend, who is a meditator also. And as part of the team, the many friends who were selected as guinea pigs as we were developing the meditation who gave us feedback. What inspired you to make OSHO Bardo? I really would love to share with people the possibility of doing dying differently. There are so many superstitions around dying, so much fear to the point of denial and avoidance. And, being familiar with OSHO’s vision, I know dying can be a completely different experience. Probably the biggest fear is that of losing control. And through meditation – and OSHO Bardo is a meditation – through meditation we can learn how to move inside and become familiar with that journey that will be the same in dying. And also to discover that aspect of ourselves that can observe everything that’s happening to the dying body. And in that observation knows itself as separate from the body. With fear dissolved, then it becomes so much more possible, as OSHO suggests, to actually celebrate dying. Mmm, coincidentally, not long after OSHO Bardo’s release, I came across an American scientific journal, which reported findings of research into what people regard as a good death. Yes, that was really interesting. The researchers talked to three groups. Dying people, their family and the health-care providers. And they were unanimous in identifying three elements that for them constitute a good death: having a specific dying process, it being pain free and having a sense of wellbeing. OSHO Bardo delivers on all three accounts. Some of us are familiar with the Tibetan Bardo Thödol, which is an ancient, Tibetan Buddhist scripture that provides support for the dying. So, how is OSHO Bardo different from the Tibetan Bardo Thödol? It’s for contemporary women and men. As you mentioned the Tibetan Bardo was created many many years ago, two and a half thousand years ago. And we are different, times are different. It’s also very culture specific, and related to Tibetan Buddhism, to a religion. On the contrary OSHO Bardo has no cultural or religious context. So it’s equally appropriate for people with a religion or without. It’s experientially based, rather than belief based. Yes? What do you mean by ‘experiential’? I mean it’s based on the experience anyone can have, who consciously moves inside to that space we know as meditation, that space where we know ourselves as separate from our thoughts, and our feelings and any bodily sensations. That space where all those elements seem very peripheral…where the whole…. What we took once as reality – the outer world – seems very dreamlike. And the space we are in – of vastness and stillness and silence – that feels like, “Really this is the reality. This is who I really am.” OSHO Bardo is based on that, an experience, as I say, that is available to anyone who moves inside. Also, anyone using OSHO Bardo – do they need to be a meditator? For example, I was thinking about my grandmother: Do you suggest I could offer OSHO Bardo to her? If she is interested, if she expresses an interest and willingness to…. Obviously, share your experience of how helpful it is for you. Yes, and particularly perhaps when one’s ageing, moving away from the activity of the outer world in sickness, in dying the energy is moving in. So, even if someone has never experimented with meditation before, or heard of it, they can be very open and ready to go inside. Yes. It’s not just the old who are going to die? Not just the old who are going to die. We all need to prepare. We all need to prepare because it’s a journey everyone’s going on. And good to acknowledge that, to come to terms with that reality. Yes. Acceptance is the key? Absolutely. Yes. A beautiful example of that is in the book that Philip Gould wrote as he was dying. He was a politician, he was a member of the house of lords and a meditator – so a very worldly, sophisticated man, obviously, but also a man with an interest in and familiarity with the inner. He wrote a book, ‘When I Die: lessons from the death zone.’ And, in that, many beautiful passages. In one of them he writes, “I am enjoying” – enjoying! – “my death. It’s the most fulfilling time, the most exciting journey.” And about acceptance he says, “If you can look death in the eye and accept it – that is healing.” And then this amazing sentence: “I feel ecstasy, after ecstasy, after ecstasy.” He wrote that knowing that within months, he was going to die. And for me that is such an amazing example of real acceptance. Perhaps, Philip Gould as a meditator, would have known that he is separate from the body, knowing himself as the consciousness, would see dying as a release, wouldn’t he? Yes. And, I think that’s where the whole OSHO understanding about celebration comes from, that once we are free of the body – of course, how amazing is that! And we would go, “Yippee!” It would be a total celebration. And a chance to know, “ecstasy after ecstasy, after ecstasy.” Yes. That’s right. And with that, of course, immense gratitude. OSHO has said many beautiful things about gratitude. And here, in particular, in relation to dying, “When you die with a sense of fulfillment and gratitude because life gave you so much, then death is simply the ultimate height of all that you lived. Then death is a joy, a celebration.” Clearly, every home should have the OSHO Bardo CD. Absolutely. How do people order it? And is it true that it is available as an MP3 download? Yes. To order it, please go to our website. You can see the address at the bottom of the screen. And yes, it will be available as an MP3 download. To stay updated as to when it’s ready do go to our website or check in to our Facebook Page, OSHO Sammasati. And/or do subscribe to our free, online, three-monthly newsletter, which you can do by, again, going to the website. Oh, it was great talking to you, Maneesha. Thank you very much for that. To you, also, Nandita, and to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.